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What Would You Pay to Own Nikki Finke? (update 2)
Updated again on Thursday afternoon:
A reader who owns a digital business takes issue with Nikki's comment on the same post (linked below) that this month she "celebrates (DHD's) 3rd anniversary and 50 million unique users."
He writes that this is impossible:
"Every time 1 person comes to your site, it's a unique. It doesn't matter if they come just one time or every day forever, they are still counted as only 1 unique. Let's say she has 1M unique readers per month (which she is not even close to that), but for arguments sake we will use 1M. Now, most of her readers are repeat viewers, so if she has 1M in Jan, and 1M in Feb, that doesn't mean she has 2M uniques. Let's say that 750K are the same people that visit several times, and then she has 250K random strays that stumble upon the site in each month, that means she has 1.25M uniques over those 2 months.
"She could have maybe spinned 5M over 3 years even though that isn't true either, but 50 Million would be like Lindsey Lohan saying she starred in Back to the Future. It's beyond preposterous, it's just that most people don't have any clue what the numbers mean so they don't realize how ridiculous of a lie it is."
He points out, correctly, that this doesn't mean her site will not sell.
Updated on Thursday morning:
Nikki just called to complain about this post in very emphatic terms, but most of what she said was off the record, so I can't share.
She did say, on the record, that she has never said that her site is bigger than Variety, only that Neil Stiles told her that his research showed DHD was a bigger "destination" site. (I've linked to her post below, so you can check it verbatim.)
"I don't know what that means, if that's readership or what," she said. "That's according to my notes. I've never said my readership is bigger."
Maybe I need to call Neil Stiles on that one.
Previously:
As far as I’m concerned, everybody’s feeling uncomfortable these days. And they should. It’s an uncomfortable time.
I called up Peter Bart, the longtime editor of Variety and a longtime friend, to ask about this report that he’d ordered up a “hit piece” on Nikki Finke – three of them, in fact – because she infuriates him: beating Variety on stories while berating other reporters yet never acknowledging when she makes mistakes.
To add insult to injury, Nikki (do I really have to call her “Finke”?) says that she was approached by Neil Stiles, Bart’s boss, to inquire about Variety’s buying her blog, Deadline Hollywood Daily. That must have stung.
“I’d never comment on anything having to do with Nikki Finke,” said Bart. “I’m not interested in internecine quarrels.”
Nonetheless, he acknowledged having ordered up the piece by Cynthia Littleton that took Nikki to task (and oddly, lumped TheWrap’s reporting about the Motion Picture Fund Home into this analysis), and another by Mike Fleming that questioned the journalistic enterprise of blogging.
“I’m very proud of them, I thought they did a good job,” Bart said.”It’s not in my nature to do hit pieces.”
There is no doubt that Variety is on the defensive, feeling the sting of declining readership and a collapsing ad market for print, and the pressure from competitors like DHD and even TheWrap.
Having cut its reporting staff, Variety’s website is hurting; the latest Quantcast numbers show Variety.com’s readership as having declined to 600,000 uniques, down from about 800,000 just a year ago.
(It’s worth noting that Nikki is way off when she says her readership is equal to Variety’s. It is about a third, according to Quantcast. But we digress.)
So in these circumstances, would a bold – if apparently unlikely – move like buying DHD make any sense?
The people I know inside Variety are quite literally confused by the thought. “It’s a little shocking to read that,” said a senior reporter, who has felt the force of Nikki’s frequent attacks on Variety. “But things are changing so fast around here. Every day I have to go into work with a clear slate, and not be surprised by anything.”
Nikki wrote that Variety ultimately “would not be able” to buy her site. What does that mean? That the company, with steadily declining revenues, didn’t have the cash? I asked her. She said to “read between the lines.” (I hate doing that.)
But having taken itself off the sale bloc at the end of last year after a $2 billion offer failed to materialize, Reed Business Information has been focused on stemming the bleeding in its profits. “These are tough times,” said one senior person at Variety. “Wouldn’t you spend that money on a reporter, not Nikki Finke?”
Not necessarily. And it’s tempting to consider what DHD might be worth. With steady traffic of 200,000 monthly uniques and a male audience of educated and economically desirable readers, she would probably get a premium.
One analyst suggested she’d get about $2 per unique, or about $400,000, at most. I am told with good authority that the former publisher of Variety, Charlie Koones, was willing to pay $500,000 a couple of years ago.
Another company that looked at buying the site, which is owned by Nikki and not the L.A.
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As to the Variety numbers, Dan1222 you're referring to the print readership numers which are indeed historically low. I am referring to the web traffic, and have linked to Quantcast figures.
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degomaniac Says
DEADLINEHOLLYWOODDAILY.COM VALUED at least at $5 million Dollars.
According to http://www.sitemeter.com she has received close to 50 millions page views (not unique visitors). Her numbers are very impressive for a "one woman band." Her site data is public, feel free to go to:
http://www.sitemeter.com/?a=stats&s=s23nikkifinke
HOW TO VALUE A WEBSITE USING MULTIPLE X FACTORS: At today's market value Nikki Finke's website [our approach uses multipleX factors - i.e. existing unique visitors (in Nikki's case each unique visitor can be valued from $10 to $15), potential future unique visitors, page views, Nikki's email database, her brand name and trademark, people assets -- Nikki Finke's daily content, rolodex access, good will, existing and potential future revenues for ads, etc., expansion capabilities, and so on] should be able to sell for around $5 million dollars. However, she will have to be part of the deal by working it for another four to five years and the site will have to be developed to reach its optimum. Very possible that she could get from $5 to $10 million dollars from the right buyer/partner.
Her site data is public, so go to:
http://www.sitemeter.com/?a=stats&s=s23nikkifinke
P.S. She could probably get up to $10 million dollars. Remember a few years back Marc Cuban and his partner got $4.3 BILLION dollars for their domain name broadcast.com
Anonymous Says
Click on the Site Meter button (bottom right of DHD) and the real stats can be seen. They're public:
http://www.sitemeter.com/?a=stats&s=s23nikkifinke
Sasha Stone Says
"Let's not forget that many of Nikki Finke's uniques (maybe as many as half or more) come from having her weekend box office summaries linked by The Drudge Report."
Well, so this commenter was the only one to draw the Finke/Drudge comparison. How can a discussion about Nikki Finke and/or Variety go on without bringing Drudge into it? It's laughable to me that The Wrap ignores this very important element. Whenever Drudge links to Variety, which is occasionally, traffic spikes considerably. Not only that, check out the comments some time when Drudge links over. Nikki Finke is one of the few Hollywood columnists who gets linked by Drudge, not just for box office, as was pointed out above, but for breaking news stories. Why should anyone care? Because most of the chatter that goes on relating to Hollywood sites goes on inside a bubble of people writing about people who write about Hollywood. Drudge and Finke are two who reach a much broader spectrum of web readers. This may not, say, influence the Oscar race, but it most certainly places them high on the food chain of website traffic.
If you check out the Alexa rating for Hollywood-Elsewhere, for instance, you'll be able to spot the day that Drudge linked to just one story on that site. It is remarkable.
I think Finke would do well on her own; her tone is more suited to blogging than it is to print journalism, but it is unwise to cover this story and ignore the Drudge connection.
Maxine Weiss Says
For the record: An off-the-record statement can absolutely be disclosed and freely printed, legally, as long as it's duly noted as such.
SJG Says
Wow! This War of the Words (and numbers) is better than the remake with Tom Cruise. In fact, it's more fun than the actual news (and better than most primetime TV as well). Hedda would've loved this.
Bottom line, for media like this the big numbers don't matter. The audience for entertainment B2B media is about quality not quantity. It's the corner office that counts not the mailroom. It's not People magazine.
Fortunately, and unfortunately as well, the democracy and low barrier to entry of the internet allows anyone and everyone to have their say. How else could you explain Perez Hilton or TMZ? (sidebar: I'd love to stake out their homes and shopping trips with paparanazis and get a reaction)
There's a place for everyone in this as long as the reader is smart enough - I know that's asking a lot - to know the difference between real news, hype and opinion
From what I see in the early days of thewrap.com, it will prove itself to be a go-to site, a fresher and potentially more relevant site than the gray ladies of HR and Variety. It's got my attention and I am now a unique. At least my mother used to think so.
Good luck to all. Be better at what you do and let slip the dogmatists of war.
nodoginthisfight Says
The web metrics "Wars" among Hollywood trade sites: Facts NOT spin.
A) According to another metrics website http://www.alexa.com the traffic rankings (not unique visitors) for the three sites are: The lower the number the better, ideally would be #1 (that is the ranking of google.com):
#1 variety.com ranked #3,800 website on the internet
#2 hollywoodreporter.com ranked #12,366 website on the internet
#3 deadlinehollywooddaily.com ranked#25,896 website on the Internet
#4 hollywood-elsewhere.com ranked #54,150 website on the Internet
#5 awardsdaily.com ranked #64,251 website on the Internet
#6 thewrap.com ranked #104,277 website on the Internet
#7 moviecitynews.com ranked #124,842 website on the internet
B) According to the website http://www.compete.com at this time
#1 Variety has 739,712 unique visitors monthly
#2 Hollywoodreporter.com has 326,543 unique visitors monthly
#3 Deadlinehollywooddaily.com has 215,279 unique visitors monthly
#4 Thewrap.com has 45,000 unique visitors monthly
#5 Moviecityenews.com has 27,452 unique visitors monthly
#6 Awardsdaily.com has 26,505 unique visitors monthly
#7 Hollywood-elsewhere has 19,838 unique visitors monthly
C) According to http://www.quantcast.com: Estimated means that quancast does not have the exact data. Therefore, the estimated numbers are NOT accurate.
#1 Variety.com exact traffic is 606,000 unique visitors
#2 Hollywoodreporter.com exact traffic is 247,000 unique visitors
#3 Deadlinehollywood.com estimated traffic is 203,000 unique visitors
#4 Thewrap.com exact traffic is 112,000 unique visitors monthly.
#5 Moviecitynews.com estimated traffic is 42,000 unique visitors monthly.
#6 Awardsdaily.com estimated traffic is 16,000 unique visitors monthly
#7 Hollywood-elsewhere.com estimated traffic is 12,000 unique visitors monthly.
Note: quantcast.com says that "Sorry, we don't have enough data to profile for deadlinehollywood.com." Therefore,deadlienhollywooddaily.com numbers are probably much higher.
Laur Says
Sharon,
Terrific to see your "uniques" numbers/volume in the few months since launching The Wrap. We love your site, the reporting, the viewpoints, the humor, and energy. Keep it up and watch the uniques increase. You've got no competition.
Ciao baby!
Laur
Anonymous Says
1. Sharon, thank you for finally calling Nikki to task. You have done something that many have been afraid to do as victims of her incessant bullying and bold face lies. Her scare tactics are becoming more and more transparent as we pull the curtain back and expose the unhappy wench herself.
2. It is certainly refreshing that there is now a forum where people can post their comments without being edited. As someone who has posted on Nikki's site many times only to see my posts up for a minute and then taken down the next or never put up in the first place. Nikki, don't act like your site is a site for "the people" when you won't even allow all the voices to be heard when they don't suit you or your sources.
Michael Dobrofsky Says
This schoolyard tit-for-tat really brings your credibility down. Just let Nikki do her thing, you do yours and let the audience choose who they want to read. You've got some good articles on this site, but this kind of stuff comes off as sour grapes.
Move on...
Kevin Davis Says
With the understanding that this conversation is now less about the topic of Sharon's post, I do want to add some further thought about all this confusion around traffic numbers.
While Alexa and Compete both have popular services, both base their assessments on indirect panel methodology. The reason why TheWrap.com is "Quantified" is because it uses a direct measurement methodology (via the inclusion of code on every page). Quantcast also measures sites that are not part of their free program by the same indirect panel methodology of the other two.
While the Quancast numbers are less than what our Google Analytics account is reporting, if you go to http://www.quantcast.com/thewrap.com you will see that at the time of this post TheWrap.com has 90k US visitors and is delivering north of 280k page views per month.
Quantcast is also reporting DeadlineHollywoodDaily as only reaching 203k uniques, but notes that it is not Quantified. So I say to Nikki and her team, if you guys are upset at these numbers, you should consider Quantifying your site.
The fact is that while the Web is touted as being "measurable" there really are no two sets of measurements - including the paid Comscore and Nielsen services - that agree.
In short, these numbers really are not that important to anyone except for people like myself who want to measure the comparative effectiveness of a site for monetization purposes.
The far more important metric in my mind is the number of comments and the feedback that we receive as a measurement of our effectiveness. And I am very pleased to say that it is clear that after only two short months TheWrap.com is DEFNITELY making an impact.
I look forward to continuing to read all of your constructive and passionate comments at this site, on Facebook and on Twitter.
Best,
Kevin Davis
COO of TheWrap.com and former GM of Variety.com
Anonymous Says
Let's not forget that many of Nikki Finke's uniques (maybe as many as half or more) come from having her weekend box office summaries linked by The Drudge Report.
You take that away and i'm sure her number falls to about 100,000.
Bill Jensen Says
This is an on-the-record statement.
I am the Director of New Media for Village Voice Media, and I can assure you that your numbers for Nikki Finke's traffic are ridiculously low.
Bill Jensen
nodoginthisfight Says
sorry websites for metrics data correction:
http://www.alexa.com
http://www.quantcast.com
In the name of fairness and for the record and based on factual data:
1) According to the website http://www.compete.com at this time
Thewrap.com has 45,000 unique visitors monthly
Deadlinehollywooddaily.com has 215,279 unique visitors monthly
Variety has 739,712 unique visitors monthly
2) Also, according to another metrics website http://www.alexa.com the traffic rankings (not unique visitors) for the three sites are: The lower the number the better, ideally would be #1 (that is the ranking of google.com):
thewrap.com ranked #104,277 website on the Internet
deadlinehollywooddaily.com ranked#25,896 website on the Internet
variety.com ranked #3,800 website on the internet
3) quantcast.com says that "Sorry, we don't have enough data to profile deadlinehollywood.com"
nodoginthisfight Says
In the name of fairness and for the record and based on factual data:
1) According to the website http://www.compete.com at this time
Thewrap.com has 45,000 unique visitors monthly
Deadlinehollywooddaily.com has 215,279 unique visitors monthly
Variety has 739,712 unique visitors monthly
2) Also, according to another metrics website http://www.alex.com the traffic rankings (not unique visitors) for the three sites are: The lower the number the better, ideally would be #1 (that is the ranking of google.com):
thewrap.com ranked #104,277 website on the Internet
deadlinehollywooddaily.com ranked#25,896 website on the Internet
variety.com ranked #3,800 website on the internet
3) quantast.com says that "Sorry, we don't have enough data to profile deadlinehollywood.com"
Ester Says
i know.. I need to up my meds Sharon.. I was reading ratings NOT Uniques..LOL! Out of all the gazillions of Websites you are like doing Incredibly awesome.
I told my Housekeeper I didn't need that 6th cup of Cawfee..
smooches,
Ester
Anonymous Says
Nikki Finke has to be the most hated blogger I have ever seen. There is no way she will survive. She is making way too many enemies. Eventually, as is always the case, those enemies will align against you. Just ask George W. Bush.
I'm glad people are starting to stand up to her and her self-serving ways. The David Poland piece I read a couple of days ago was another --- as was the Variety piece. It's only a matter of time before her actions catch up to her.
Whether it's Finke's fact (and message approving) cherry-picking; her outright shilling for Membership First (she must be the last person in Hollywood who doesn't think that Rosenberg has been an outright disaster); her pathetic self-promotion; her unfair character assassinations; and on and on. This woman is becoming a one-person show on crazed meglomania. She must be stopped.
Transpo Says
About time someone called Nikki Finke out on her self-serving MF biased blog. Even worse is when she tries to identify herself with true journalists - she is a BLOGGER - and nothing more. She has done more damage to the real workers in the industry with her support of nuts like Rosenberg, Allen, and the rest of the MF loons with her BS blog style attacks and must be held to task.
Time to sink the Finke
tc Says
I love Nikki's comments here and the new post on her rumor mill blog (note that the comment section of that post is disabled - worried about your own readers opinions?), both are perfectly representative of her "reporting" style which can only be described as cherry-picking then manipulating facts. Or perhaps that's too harsh and infact she's just stupid? I've often wondered if that might be the case, that maybe Nikki is just a f---ing dolt, who doesn't really understand half of what she's telling us (toldja!). Craig Mazin often offers analysis of Nikki's misunderstandings and misrepresentations of the facts on his blog http://artfulwriter.com/ . Sorry Craig, you may be the next target of that t---'s ire.
bored2tears Says
Why would *anyone* seriously considering buying DHD? It's a one-woman operation run by an obviously unstable -- if sporadically entertaining -- hack. Has anyone who paid Finke ever found her worth the trouble?
Sharon Waxman Says
nikki - i love that you are now blogging on our site! maybe one day your comments section will be open too, so that those who disagree with you can be part of the conversation there.
the emails with charlie koones, on which you copied me, came in response to your emailing him, by the way in a wholly insulting manner. you don't mention this, of course. this is your MO when the facts don't fit.
by the way, here is the rest of charlie's comment on that email (with apologies to charlie):
"I've always said you have massive talent, but be careful about the number of bridges you commit to torching."
please don't presume you know my sources. and i now leave this conversation to our readers, hope you will too.
s.
Nikki Finke Says
UPDATE: I just received this email from Charlie Koones: "While I certainly spoke to Sharon, I never claimed to have tried to buy your site for any amount of money."
Nikki Finke Says
This is yet another erroneous blog post about me/DHD. Normally, I wouldn't even bother to publicly respond. But the blogger is claiming to have interviewed me. This is false as well as the statements attributed to me. The blogger has taken my off-the-record "Umms" and "Hmms" and other noncommittal responses from one brief and casual conversation on another subject, and not only put these on-the-record but drawn inferences from them that have no basis in reality -- a common complaint against this blogger. As for the blog post itself, everything in it is wrong (from the phantom sales discussions to the lowball traffic numbers). I suppose all this attention is flattering. 'Nuff said.
Anonymous Says
Can't we all just get along?
I just don't get the point of this war of words between The Wrap, DHD and Variety.
I see the The Wrap, DHD and Variety as very different entities. Yes they cover the same industry, but they are different in style, approach, audience size, and yes, respect from their readers and establishment. I read them all and get something different from each. It's about style as much as content, about trust and loyalty in your readership rather than internal back-biting which no one really gives a shit about outside these three publications.
You guys report on the entertainment industry and that's what I want to read, not bitchy comments (on all sides) that tell me nothing that I want to know.
Get over it and start writing stuff we are interested in other than yourselves and your own competition.
Sharon Waxman Says
estah, dahling, i need to help you read quantcast. thewrap has surpassed 100,000 uniques this month. smooches back to u.
Ester Says
I was just lookin the Quantcast stats for THE WRAP..16,387!!! You GO SHARON! Incredible growth for such a Short time! Finkke SHOULD be nervous..
smooches,
Ester
www.estergoldberg.com
Anonymous Says
truth be told, any media outlet would be NUTS to pay big dollars for an Internet site in this economy. They can't turn her hits into ad dollars.
Sharon Waxman Says
I'd say we made some Nikki fans nervous here. To that Anonymous who doesn't like TheWrap, this is the first I've heard from you - but feel free to offer constructive advice, or contribute. We're building a community of people who want smart and entertaining coverage of their world. The response we've gotten so far is the polar opposite of your opinion, but make the site better if you're so inclined.
As to the Variety numbers, Dan1222 you're referring to the print readership numers which are indeed historically low. I am referring to the web traffic, and have linked to Quantcast figures.
Anyone interested in TheWrap's traffic numbers can also check Quantcast, where we are indexed.
dan1222 Says
The wild-eyed comments about Variety's declining readership are misguided. Variety's circulation has never been more than 30,000 and actually hovers around 25,000. Yet the paper is able to demand outrageous ad revenues because the more-or-less captive audience is always there. And they're in the highest bracket of per capita earnings. Ad sales are a different matter.
Boomzilla Says
If you were really unbiased, and really a reporter, or fair, you would have included your own "unique hit" stats. Anybody who makes as many mistakes as you have going way back to your time at the Washington Post, it's amazing to me you have any job at all. Will you still be here in a year? Or are you just hoping to build just enough ... strength in numbers to cash out with a sale? I was going to say credibility, but on that particular measure I'd say you don't stand a chance.
Anonymous Says
I find it astounding that you dissect nikki's viability for sale when your site is a laughing stock. Seriously, Sharon, it's a mess, no tone, not editorial direction, atrocious design and snotty writers. The glass in your house is extremely thin.
wrappedup Says
From someone who regularly follows both DHD and Variety, I say it's about time to get such well thought out, unbiased commentary on the subject.
Great story. Well done!!
Anonymous Says
There is no doubt that Variety is on the defensive, feeling the sting of declining readership and a collapsing ad market for print, and the pressure from competitors like DHD and even TheWrap.
LOL I'm sorry, you consider yourself 'competition'. Quite literally, LOL-ing.
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