‘Better Call Saul’ Co-Showrunner Breaks Down That Long-Awaited Moment in the Season Finale
“I’m so thankful that everyone stuck with us this long,” Peter Gould tells TheWrap
Tim Baysinger | October 8, 2018 @ 7:26 PM
Last Updated: October 8, 2018 @ 7:33 PM
Nicole Wilder/AMC/Sony Pictures
(Warning: This story contains spoilers from the season finale of AMC’s “Better Call Saul”)
Exit Jimmy McGill. And finally, after four seasons, enter Saul Goodman.
The “Breaking Bad” spinoff wrapped its fourth season on Monday with a moment that viewers had been anticipating ever since we first met Bob Odenkirk’s lovable-but-flawed Jimmy McGill.
“I’m so thankful that everyone stuck with us this long,” Peter Gould, “Better Call Saul’s” co-showrunner tells TheWrap.
After delivering a heartfelt, tearful story about his late brother Chuck (Michael McKean) and winning his appeal to the New Mexico State Bar committee to be reinstated as a lawyer, as they walk out Jimmy does an about-face to Kim (Rhea Seehorn): He was faking the whole thing in an attempt to get a sympathy vote.
“Did you see those suckers? That one a—— was crying,” he excitedly tells Kim, who looks on horror as she is unwittingly witnessing the “birth” of his “Breaking Bad” alter-ego. Upon being reinstated, he asks for a DBA, or “Doing Business As,” form so he can practice law under a different name. And if there was still any doubt what that name would be, the final words of the season made it crystal clear: He’s finally Saul Goodman, Attorney at Law.
“It’s one of those things that emerged, sort of organically, as we broke the season,” Gould said of the four-years-in-the-making moment.
The introduction (or re-introduction) of Saul Goodman was something that took far longer than Gould had anticipated, as it’s well known that he and co-creator Vince Gilligan had originally planned to have Jimmy become Saul at the end of the first season. But the tragic descent of Jimmy into the sleazy lawyer from “Breaking Bad” ending up being too interesting to speed through.
But all throughout the fourth season, it felt like the clock was counting down to midnight on Jimmy. He was already using the “Saul Goodman” moniker when he was selling his cell phones to criminals and in the penultimate episode he laments to Kim that, while he sees those same criminals as potential new business (after all, criminals tend to need lawyers), they only know him under his pseudonym.
“Jimmy has this very specific problem, which is that his former business of doing wills for the elders is closed off to him,” says Gould. “Even when he’s a lawyer again, he’s ruined his reputation, so what kind of law is he going to practice next?”
Gould said that around midseason they figured out how they were going to get Jimmy to that point where he decides it’s more advantageous to him to practice law under a different name. “All season long we’ve been kind of teasing out and going step by step to try and figure out how he comes to the conclusion that he comes to.” And as Gould explains, to Jimmy, it makes perfect sense. “This crazy decision of calling himself Saul Goodman is, in his eyes, logical.”
But Gould teases, is it also a way for Jimmy to put on a mask and shut himself off to anybody that still cares for him?
All throughout “Better Call Saul” the writers have presented Jimmy McGill as this down-on-his-luck screw up, always looking to cut corners, and always failing to earn the respect of Chuck. Despite Jimmy’s insistence to Kim at the end that his statement about his late brother in front of the committee was an act, Gould argues there was probably some truth to those words, where Jimmy talks about his desire to make his big brother proud.
“He uses the death of his brother to evoke an emotional reaction from the panel to win the day. But, it feels very real,” said Gould. “Has he just become a much better actor? There’s a lot of ways to interpret that [scene].”
Gould said the writers are just starting to plan out the fifth season, which will see Odenkirk have to essentially play two characters.
“The big question for us is what does it mean to be Saul?” he asks. “It’s the Bruce Wayne/Batman question. Which one is the real guy?”
"Better Call Saul" inhabits the same sad Albuquerque underground as "Breaking Bad," so it's natural that characters in the AMC shows would overlap. Ready to see how? (Spoiler warning: This gallery contains lots of details about both shows.)
Jimmy McGill/Saul Goodman (Bob Odenkirk) He's the main character in the new series, so of course we need to include Slippin' Jimmy. Goodman appeared in 43 of 62 "Breaking Bad" episodes as Walt and Jesse's criminal lawyer, with an emphasis on "criminal." This season, Jimmy finally starts to practice law as Saul Goodman, complete with an upgraded wardrobe.
In flash-forwards, we see that Jimmy/Saul lives long enough to become a paranoid, balding Cinnabon worker. Free icing? Could be worse.
Don Hector Salamanca (Mark Margolis) He walks! Hector -- the uncle of Tuco Salamanca -- had a wheelchair in "Breaking Bad." But the old man who was constantly ringing his bell to communicate was a real crimelord in his younger, more virile days, which "Better Call Saul" shows.
In "Breaking Bad," Hector takes out Gustavo Fring (pictured) with a crazy suicide bomb, avenging the deaths of his OTHER nephews. We'll get to those guys soon.
Ken (Kyle Bornheimer) Here's one of those deep pulls that we alluded to earlier. In "Breaking Bad," obnoxious Ken inadvertently helped Walter White break bad, and his mode of transportation suffered the consequences.
First, Ken stole Walt's parking space at a bank, while bragging on his bluetooth. Later, the loudmouth continued his boastful, irritating behavior. So Walt blew up his car, as chemists do.
In Season 2 of "Saul," Jimmy and Kim trick Ken into buying them a ton of expensive tequila shots at a swanky bar. The stock broker with "KEN WINS" on his BMW license plates tends to lose a lot in this universe.
Gustavo Fring (Giancarlo Esposito) After being teased at the end of Season 2, The Chicken Man and “Breaking Bad’s” biggest adversary shows up in the second episode of season 3. After a humorous scene where he’s cleaning up right next Jimmy eating at Los Pollos Hermanos (Saul and Gus never actually met each other in “Breaking Bad”), we see Fring is not yet the drug kingpin he is in “Breaking Bad.” But throughout the first four seasons, we see how Mike will eventually become Gus’ fixer and get a lot more on the rivalry between Fring and the Salamancas (as fans of both shows know, it doesn’t end well for either).
We also see Fring lay his eyes for the first time on the industrial laundromat that will be known to “Breaking Bad” fans as the Super Lab where Walt and Jesse cook for him.
Tuco Salamanca (Raymond Cruz) Tuco's surprise appearance in Season 1 of "Better Call Saul" set the tone for even more exciting, unspoiled villainous returns. And then legs got broken, badly, because Tuco is a complete madmen.
Currently, Tuco is doing prison time, thanks to Mike. But he'll be out soon enough ...
In "Breaking Bad," the ruthless Tuco had worked his way all the way up to drug kingpin level. He, Walt and Jesse had some rough and tumble meetings before Tuco himself met his demise with a Hank Shrader bullet through the brain.
Mike Ehrmantraut (Jonathan Banks) OK, OK, we know -- another obvious one. But you can't make this an all-encompassing list sans Mike.
Mike and Jimmy/Saul work together in both series, though their relationship remains rocky at best. Early on in "Better Call Saul," the two meet at a local courthouse, where Jimmy is a public defender and Mike works the parking lot.
Leonel Salamanca (Daniel Moncada) One of the killer "cousins," who are really twin brothers. (They're cousins of Tuco's, and nephews of Hector's.)
The boys are dangerous, bloody, all-business hitman for the Juarez drug cartel. They're sharp dressers and have ever sharper axes. Both brothers get snuffed out as a result of a classic Hank firefight during "Breaking Bad," though this one lives long enough for one last-gasp badass hospital moment.
Domingo "Krazy-8" Molina (Max Arciniega) A more grown-up Krazy-8 was actually the first person Walter killed in "Breaking Bad," though he hemmed and hawed over it for a while, almost freeing his violent prisoner.
In "Saul," Molina comes across quite convincingly as a younger, more innocent version of himself, still new to the drug game and working at his dad's store. In a half-decade or so, he'll be choked to death with a bicycle lock in Jesse's aunt's basement. He's also Jimmy/Saul's first step into becoming the criminal underworld's go-to attorney.
Lawson (Jim Beaver) Everyone's favorite weapons dealer sells Walt the gun he uses to mow down a whole lotta neo-Nazis. He also turned up on "Better Call Saul" to offer several rifles to Mike... though, to Lawson's surprise, Mike took a pass.
Lydia Rodarte-Quayle (Laura Fraser) We all know how she takes her tea by now, which would ultimately be Lydia's demise.
During the "Breaking Bad" days, Lydia tried to get Mike to kill a laundry list of Gus Fring's associates. When he refuses, she tries to have Mike killed. Bad move.
Lydia and Mike first meet in "Better Call Saul," when Gus sets him up with a paycheck at her Madrigal Electromotive. They don't get off to a great start.
Huell Babineaux (Lavell Crawford) A very svelte-looking Huell (Crawford lost 130 pounds since the end of “Breaking Bad”) pops up in the fifth episode of season 3, “Chicanery,” inadvertently bumping into Chuck during a recess during Jimmy’s bar hearing. In a gut-punching reveal, we find out that Jimmy hired Huell to plant a fully-charged battery on Chuck, which reveals his illness to be in his head and helps Jimmy avoid getting barred forever for practicing law.
Hey wait a minute, didn’t we see Huell do that move before…?
Don Eladio Vuente (Steven Bauer) "The Winking Greek" was the boss of the Juarez Cartel -- that is, until he took a shot of Gus Fring's Zafiro Añejo tequila during the "Breaking Bad" days.
Back during the "Better Call Saul" timeline, Eladio was a total jerk to Hector, who years later was used as a prop to take out Fring.
Francesca Liddy (Tina Parker) Before she was Saul Goodman’s personal secretary, Francesca served as the receptionist for Wexler McGill. She unfortunately gets laid off when Jimmy and Kim decide to sublet the office during Jimmy’s enforced year-long sabbatical from legal work. Jimmy promises to hire her back when he can practice law again, and we all know how that turns out.
Gale Boetticher (David Costabile) In the third episode of Season 4, Gus pays a visit to Gale at his chemistry lab on the University of New Mexico campus (with the scene evoking memories of another chemistry teacher), which ends with Gale urging for Gus to allow him to produce higher-grade meth in his lab. Gus declines, saying Gale is meant for “better things.”
We’ll find out in “Breaking Bad” that those “better things” aren’t really all that better.
Ed Galbraith (Robert Forester) A voice cameo for Ed, better known as the Vacuum Cleaner store operator that helped Saul disappear into his post-"Breaking Bad" life as Gene Takovic.
After Gene gets made, he phones in Ed to help him disappear again (at double the price), before deciding to take matters into his own hands.
Hank Schrader (Dean Norris) As Jimmy/Saul gets further into bed with the criminal underworld, we figure it was only a matter of time he crossed paths with Albuquerque's most famous DEA agent.
Norris is certainly the most prominent "Breaking Bad" alum to re-appear on the AMC prequel, having starred in 60 of the show's 62 episodes.
Steve Gomez (Steven Michael Quezada) What, you thought Hank would show up without his trusted partner?
Peter Schuler (Norbert Weisser) Schuler only appeared in one scene in "Breaking Bad" but it was a pretty memorable one.
The executive for Madrigal Electromotive GmbH, the parent company of Fring’s Los Pollos Hermanos (and financial benefactor for his meth operation), kills himself with a portable defibrillator after police arrive to question him about his longstanding ties to the Chicken Man.
In “Better Call Saul” we find out he was never that calm and collected.
Honestly? We're most worried about people who turn up on "Better Call Saul" but not "Breaking Bad." Does that mean they went straight and avoided grim "Breaking Bad" fates? Or that they didn't survive "Better Call Saul"? Kim Wexler, let us know you're okay.
A few “Better Call Saul” faces are familiar, but others are very deep pulls
"Better Call Saul" inhabits the same sad Albuquerque underground as "Breaking Bad," so it's natural that characters in the AMC shows would overlap. Ready to see how? (Spoiler warning: This gallery contains lots of details about both shows.)
AMC
