Kate Mackz never had any intention of being a creator until she tore her ACL. The first time it happened in high school, Mackz documented her recovery in a blog “on a whim,” an experience that garnered her a following of young people going through similar injuries and taught her about the power of social media. When she got injured again after college, she got really into running, which inadvertently inspired a show that let her quit her full-time job.
Mackz is just one creator whose homegrown show is challenging the space in pop culture once dominated by broadcast and cable talk shows.
At 796,000 followers on TikTok, Mackz’s “The Running Interview Show,” which features her holding short conversations while running through the streets of New York with everyone from local athletes to celebrities like Tim Gunn, Joe Jonas, Al Roker and Julianne and Derek Hough, has steadily gained ground. Even though its follower count hasn’t hit “Hot Ones” levels, it’s an impressive feat that supports an editing team, a studio in downtown Brooklyn, an iHeartRadio deal for her podcast “Post Run High” and brand deals with Netflix, Vuori, Maybelline and Celsius.
“It was beyond my wildest dreams that it would turn into what it is now,” Mackz, clad in athletic wear, told me on a sunny August morning near Brooklyn Bridge — during a walk, naturally.
Creator shows like “The Running Interview Show” have become a must-stop on celebrity and political press tours. Whereas the audience for network and cable TV skews older, these shows often have younger fan bases, a coveted demographic for advertisers. Because they’re often pre-taped, talent that may be nervous around live audiences don’t have to worry as much, while agents and managers have more of a say over which cuts of their clients are being used.
There’s also a low-stakes tone to these shows, which films guests doing everything from chowing down on chicken to using a Metro Card as a mic. The unexpected settings and demands of these shows often leads guests to let their guards down — a win for audiences who want to see the “real” side of these public-facing figures. And their growth in popularity comes as the more traditional celebrity interview setting — like a late night talk show — is waning.
The best known example of creator-led talk shows is Sean Evans’ “Hot Ones,” which comes from First We Feast (15 million YouTube subscribers). There’s also Mythical Kitchen’s “Last Meals” (4 million YouTube subscribers), Amelia Dimoldenberg’s “Chicken Shop Date” (3.3 million YouTube subscribers) and Kareem Rahma’s “Subway Takes” (1.7 million Instagram followers).
These shows aren’t just popular; they land massive guests. Brittany Broski’s “Royal Court” may “only” have 819,000 YouTube followers so far, but it’s landed the likes of Fred Armisen, Brie Larson, Kyle MacLachlan and Diego Luna. As for mega-creator Kai Cenat (20 million Twitch followers), Kevin Hart has become such a fixture of Cenat’s Mafiathon streams that the two are making a movie together. Last week, YouTube even announced that “Recess Therapy” star Julian Shapiro-Barnum would be hosting its first-ever late night show in 2026.
These digital shows are also emerging as late night television is in decline. Despite pops in viewership for “The Late Show With Stephen Colbert” and “Jimmy Kimmel Live!” for their respective controversies, late night talk shows have seen their ad spend and ratings decline over the last few years.
TV ratings and viewership for social-first shows are never a one-to-one comparison. But in the third quarter, “Jimmy Kimmel Line!” averaged 1.85 million viewers via linear ratings. The eight episodes of “Hot Ones” released this year averaged 2.6 million views per episode. It should be noted that Kimmel’s team has to produce new episodes four nights a week, which is more demanding, and Kimmel’s linear ratings don’t include the show’s social numbers.
@katemackz Replying to @Morgan Raum we need @James Charles on Traitors immediately…pod is out nowww #movewithkatemackz #jamescharles ♬ original sound – KATE MACKZ
Though some shows like “The Tonight Show” have been savvy about switching to social media, the ad revenue brought in from those platforms isn’t worth as much as the revenue made by linear broadcasts. Because of this, even late night shows that have adapted to the times are financially struggling. As this retreat is happening, more agents and celebrities have been turning toward creator-driven shows with low overhead and a different audience.
“Some studios [book their talent on creator shows], and they get it for the big ones like ‘Hot Ones,’ but there’s still a few more creators that they haven’t tapped into,” Nya-Gabriella Parchment, co-head of UTA Creators Brand Partnerships, told TheWrap. “There’s a lot of untapped potential, and we’re just getting into it.”
Anne Libera, an associate professor who is the director of comedy studies for Columbia College Chicago’s theater department, has even noticed the change in her students. Rather than focusing on landing late night gigs like the comedy hopefuls of the past, her students see growing their own following on social media as a better way to build a lasting career.
“They’re talking very seriously about ‘How do I create that cross-platform thing that is going to contain those same elements that late night had?’” Libera told TheWrap.
The evolution of a tried-and-true format
It’s been largely lost to history, but late night talk shows were a disruptor in their prime. When Chicago’s Second City theater opened in 1959, it was a hub for people to watch live comedy with shows starting as late as 1 a.m. The demand for those later showtimes fell away with the advent of late night TV in the 1960s, starting with the father of the genre’s modern incarnation, Johnny Carson.
“There was nothing to do at home. Late night television really filled this void for people who were living on their own, or maybe not living with very many people, to have this sense of being a part of something,” Libera explained.
Talk shows make viewers feel like they’re hanging out with a group of friends at a party, a parlor trick complete with silly inside jokes and conversations about what was happening during the day. “In many ways, that is exactly the same thing as influencer social media,” Libera said. “The great thing about having it online is you have it when you need it. It’s not just late at night when you’re feeling alone; it’s anytime you’re feeling alone.”
What it takes to make a digital talk show
Fittingly, the idea for Mackz’s “The Running Interview Show” came to her on a run. After meeting several interesting people in her running group, Mackz wished she had a microphone to record their conversations.
“You really get to know people when you’re on a run for 36 miles,” Mackz said.
The next day, she started the show. In that first week in 2021, she ran 120 miles as she started collecting interviews from people in her life, offering them new pairs of Nikes as a thank you.
During that first month, Mackz adopted a grueling schedule. Her first interview-and-run happened around 6:30 a.m., but if she was double-booked that day, she would schedule another run at 8 a.m. By 10 a.m., she tried to have the first video edited and ready to go live — 30 minutes before her status meeting at her full-time job as a senior account manager at marketing firm Omnicom. Mackz kept up that schedule for an entire summer before she eventually decided to pursue her show full time.
Now the series runs, and runs. Interview taping sessions for episodes last from 15 minutes to an hour, with editing taking from six to 12 hours. Mackz has at least three teammates she classifies as full-time employees with 10 to 12 editors, PR specialists and production and project managers working with her on a part-time basis. She also describes the entire process as “pretty turnkey,” only requiring Mackz to use her phone, a selfie stick, a pair of mics and occasionally an extra camera. This format means she can shoot from just about anywhere.
“Our mission since Day 1 has been to get the world moving,” Mackz said.
A change for both creatives and the industry
That freedom to create anything you want was also the central driver behind Broski’s “Royal Court.” Best known for the comedy news show “The Broski Report” (1.1 million YouTube subscribers), Broski launched her celebrity talk show “Royal Court,” which finds her interviewing her subject from a pair of thrones dressed in royal getup, in 2023 with what she calls a “kernel of an idea.”
“I love ‘Game of Thrones’ and I really love ‘Hot Ones,’ so I wanted to combine the two,” Broski told TheWrap. “How comfortable Sean Evans makes people feel, I wanted to combine this with an over-the-top, whimsical element. Thus, we have ‘Royal Court,’ which started in my spare bedroom.”
Building a following is of course difficult, but once a creator does it, they’re afforded luxuries late night hosts aren’t. Though creator-led shows may have sponsors, by-and-large, they don’t have to worry about angering a rotating list of network advertisers or the FCC, allowing for more creative freedom. And President Trump isn’t asking for any of them to be fired (yet).
Creators also have more control over their schedules. When Rolling Stone asked “Subway Takes” host Kareem Rahma if he would take Fallon’s job at “The Tonight Show,” he asked why.
“You have to show up five nights a week for the rest of your life and interview people that you don’t want to interview. Why would you want to do that?” Rahma said.
The push to digital has also been seen as helpful to the agents and managers of celebrity talent. One Hollywood insider on the agency side told TheWrap that they’re given more control over which cuts are used on creator-led shows than on traditional TV. Another noted that the live format of traditional late night could be detrimental to talent who’s not used to working in front of audiences.
This isn’t to say that these creator-led shows are without fault. For one, studios and brands expect more direct results from social media appearances than they do from traditional media. So while a celebrity appearance on a late night show may be praised for generating good word-of-mouth, that same celebrity appearing on a creator-led talk show may be expected to directly increase ticket sales. A big reason for this increased pressure has to do with the fact that digital campaigns offer more tools to track audience metrics compared to traditional TV. However, advertising uncertainty about this rapidly growing landscape also contributes to the oversized expectations.
“A lot of people are trying to figure out how do you define an ROI for this space? I don’t think we’ve quite figured it out yet, and the industry is going through some growing pains because of that,” Parchment said.
Libera also noted that there are several “amazing” people working in late night and theaters like Second City who won’t have anywhere to go if late night shows do fully end. But despite the uncertainty in the industry and format, Libera is hopeful for the future of talk shows.
“I think we’re going to see [traditional late night shows] float away,” Libera said. “But the thing that feels like late night — the talk show format, the group of friends sitting around shooting the s–t, playing stupid party games, introducing you to this is my other friend who’s just very weird, playing characters — there’s always going to be a version of that.”
Additional reporting by Tess Patton.
