For Errol Morris, the 1960s hold a particular allure. The decade inspired the documentarian’s “The Fog of War,” which profiled Robert McNamara, an architect of the disastrous Vietnam War. His 2017 Netflix miniseries, “Wormwood,” was set among shadowy operatives responsible for MKUltra, the secret (and deadly) government program on mind control throughout the ’60s. His recent John le Carré doc, “The Pigeon Tunnel,” was similarly steeped in Cold War theatrics.
All of this to say that it’s not surprising that Morris decided to tackle Charles Manson and his infamous crimes in “Chaos: The Manson Murders.” Based on Tom O’Neill and Dan Piepenbring’s nonfiction book “Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties,” the new Netflix film asks how an uneducated rube became a Svengali to a devoted cult and whether the answer could be tied to the CIA and the development of MKUltra. “Conspiracy is hopeful because it tells you, ‘Hey, at least there’s a reason,’” Morris said. “There is a group of malefactors, rubbing their hands together, plotting, conniving.”
How did you come to this project and what does it have to do with “Wormwood”? They came from a singular nucleus, right?
Well, they come from a singular nucleus in the sense that they come from reality. And clearly, MKUltra is part of both stories in one form or another—this idea of a Manchurian Candidate, the attempt to program someone to kill. One of the central mysteries of the Manson story is: Did he convince these women to kill for him? Presumably, if I tried to get you to kill for me, I would have some inherent difficulties. I can’t really tell how pliable you are. But then again, I don’t have the urge to kill anybody.
I have an editor at Penguin, and he called me one day to tell me that he had a writer (O’Neill) who needed help. He couldn’t finish his book on Manson. This is the very beginning of a long, convoluted story. It’s been ten years now since that initial call. I wasn’t so much interested in helping Tom finish his book as I was interested in making a movie with Tom. We did all these interviews, many of which appear in “Chaos” — interviews from ten years ago, interviews far more recently. And Tom got cold feet. He didn’t really want to make the movie. He wanted to see the book finished, which he did. And then, much to my surprise, Tom asked me, “You still interested?” I said, “Yes, I was interested then and I’m still interested now.”
Much of the book is dedicated to disproving what (Manson prosecutor) Vincent Bugliosi wrote in “Helter Skelter,” the best-selling true- crime book of all time. But he is missing from the documentary. (Bugliosi came up with the “Helter Skelter” scenario, which posited that the murders were meant to start a race war and were partly inspired by the Beatles song.)
I was talking to Bugliosi just before he died. I never got him into a studio and interviewed him. He died on me. And perhaps the most interesting thing about Tom’s book is his attempt to deal with Bugliosi and essentially to discredit Bugliosi. I think that’s pretty powerful. I agree with it, by and large.
But we should remember that Bugliosi had a very specific task. Probably the first task was to get convictions against Manson and members of the Manson Family. And probably he also had this need to make a lot of money, to write the definitive book about the case. But ultimately, if you’re asking me—and you’re not asking me, so I have to ask myself—do I believe that (the Beatles’) “Helter Skelter” triggered the bottomless pit (the murder spree) at all? I would say, “Not so much.” Bugliosi had to come up with a conspiracy theory of his own in order to justify the convictions. Remember, he’s presenting a drama to a jury that’s either going to acquit or they’re going to convict. He needed them to convict, and he was successful.
Do you feel like you have a better grip on the case, or is it just as confounding as it always was?
I think I do have a better grip. But if you’re asking me, do I think I fully understand the case? No, but do I have a better grip on the outlines of this case? I feel that I do.
It’s important in a criminal investigation that we remember we’re looking into reality, and we may see false pieces. We may not understand fully the pieces that we are studying. Bugliosi himself — it’s my favorite passage in “Helter Skelter”— talks about crime as a jigsaw puzzle and the idea that we’re going to make all the pieces fit in the end. And he reminds us that sometimes we don’t have all the pieces. Even worse, sometimes pieces show up that we’re not even sure are a part of that same puzzle. Nothing may, in the end, make sense, or cohere to form a unified picture of what we’re looking at. I would have to say I’m more or less convinced maybe “Helter Skelter” (the scenario) was part of something, but if it’s the overarching principle that defines this case? Call me a skeptic.
Do you think Manson was a programmed assassin?
I think it’s unlikely, but I know enough about MKUltra and the CIA. Ask me a slightly different question. I’ll ask myself: Was there such a thing as MKUltra? Yes. Was the CIA interested in controlling human behavior? Yes. Were they interested in implanting false memories that people might consider to be true memories? Yes. Is that what happened here in the Manson case? Don’t know, but I don’t see it. But is it an impossibility? I think that’s what kept Tom going, because he wanted to believe it. And to his credit, he kept trying to find it, and it didn’t quite get there for him.
This story first ran in the Race Begins issue of TheWrap’s awards magazine.
Read more from the Race Begins issue here.
