How ESPN's '30 for 30 Podcasts' Season 6 Pushed Boundaries to Be More 'Culturally Impactful' Than Ever

Following in the Oscar-winning footsteps of its namesake film series, the sixth season of ESPN's "30 for 30 Podcasts" is "more global and culturally impactful than ever before," according to the voice of the series.

"We've started to push the boundaries a little bit. The first three episodes sound very different to anything listeners have heard before and are very different to each other," host and producer Jody Avirgan tells TheWrap.

Using sports as the unifying backdrop, each story looks at a larger event beyond the field or the court -- tackling abduction, natural disaster, international cheating scandals, and even the murder of a suspected Russian double agent.

Also Read: ESPN Designates December 4 as 'Stuart Scott Day' in Honor of Late 'SportsCenter' Anchor

While the podcast series continues the "30 for 30" legacy of quality storytelling that was launched by Connor Schell and Bill Simmons a decade ago, the audio episodes often require different approaches to their film siblings.

"It is almost the same criteria for topics -- it needs to be a story on multiple levels with twists, turns and bigger themes," Avirgan explained. But as podcasts don't have a visual element, "it really means that our characters have to do a ton of work."

The fascinating characters profiled in Season 6 include kidnap survivor and former biathlete Kari Swenson, WNBA stars Diana Taurasi and Sue Bird, and Chilean goalkeeper Roberto "El Condor" Rojas.

Also Read: ESPN '30 for 30': 'Morningside 5' Revisits LA High School Basketball Stars 25 Years Later

All four episodes of "3o for 30 Podcasts" Season 6 from ESPN Films and ESPN Audio are currently available, for more information visit 30for30podcats.com.

Read the full Q&A with Avirgan below:

TheWrap: How has Season 6 evolved from previous "30 for 30 Podcasts"?
Jody Avirgan: I am really proud of the tonal variety of this season as that is at the heart of what we are trying to do. There is a lot of true crime, serious, heavy podcasting out there -- and while we've taken that on as well, what I try to remind myself is that we also need to have episodes that are fun and easy to listen to, where you can just go along for the ride even if they still involve serious characters.

How does ESPN decide if a story will make a better podcast or film?
It has actually been really nice to start this podcast series after 10 years of people like Connor Schell asking the question: "What is a good '30 for 30' story?" I have just been a sponge for that kind of thinking. Now, we are really nicely integrated with the "30 for 30" team. When an idea comes in that we recognize as a good story, we ask "what is the best way to tell that story?" There has been a number of things that got pitched as films but ended up being a podcast. "The Good, the Bad, and the Hungry" is one we initially pitched as a podcast but became a film, so that was the other way around -- in part because I was concerned about people hearing all that chewing in their ears!

Part of the appeal of "30 for 30" is that even the darkest topics -- like in "O.J.: Made in America" -- have light moments, and vice versa.
I like that mix of finding kooky and weird moments but also asking what is the soul of the story and why does it really matter? I enjoy having that experience myself, of going into a film thinking it is one thing and then saying: "I can't believe I cried during that competitive hot dog eating film!" That is life and the human experience as we can have multiple emotions at any given time. But it is also a luxury that we have in this genre, as we have the space, time and depth for long-form storytelling. If it was a nine-minute feature about one of these topics then it'd be hard to express that range of emotions. It also means that the bar for the stories we tell is really high. It can't be just one beat or emotion -- they have to take multiple twists and turns, or have characters on multiple levels.

Also Read: ESPN's Latest '30 for 30' Film Spotlights Brilliant But Troubled Soccer Star George Best

What are the production challenges in telling a story aurally rather than on film?
One thing is that we have fewer tools at our disposal as we don't have a visual element. In a film, it is often an amalgam of what someone is saying, the emotion on their face, information on the screen, archival visual shots ... For us, it really means that our characters have to do a ton of work. One of the things I've learned is that when we are interviewing a character, we almost have to get them to tell a story on two tracks. Oftentimes we'll do one interview where we ask "what happened? Tell us beat by beat, moment by moment." Then go back and get them to do that exact same thing but talk about their emotions during those events.

That means we need people who will open up and be back in the moment, then have the eloquence to describe it. We ask a lot of our characters, especially when they've been through a traumatic experience like Kari Swenson in "Out of the Woods." Without doing two interviews, it wouldn't have been as compelling and would feel more like a Wikipedia entry.

I always feel more personally connected to podcast characters than those in documentary films as I feel like they are talking directly to me -- does that impact production decisions?
You definitely want to have topics where there is a level of emotional depth. I am really proud of "The Fall of the Condor" but it's not one where you have characters that you really get to know -- it's more of a great, head-spinning story. But I think in general we have a bias towards someone needing to be the main character who you can connect with. In a film you can have someone pop up, say some interesting stuff, you can put a byline on them and then they can disappear.

In a podcast, when you introduce a character, you have to get to know them, understand who they are, and they should have an arc that comes to a satisfactory conclusion. Usually, we'll have three or four characters but when you look at a film of the same length, there could be 12 different people.

A lot of documentaries use subtitles but obviously you can't do that in podcasts, how do you get over language barriers such as in "The Fall of the Condor" when most of the characters are Chilean or Brazilian?
We use a mix of approaches. There are moments where you hear someone talking Spanish and I, as a narrator, will then tell the story in English without doing pure translation. But I also wanted there to be moments when the listeners just heard Spanish. Then for our central character, the Condor, we have a voice actor to do that. So it is hybrid translation work ... there are little tricks of the trade you can play with and it's an interesting challenge, but we think got it right.

"Condor" is a crazy story and one of those where you can't quite believe it happened. It was huge in Chile and Brazil but no one knew about it here. It was very much about one person's actions, but is also tied in with this bigger culture of Chile and how the country's hopes and dreams came down to this one team, so the players really felt that pressure. We're seeing that again as Chile is in the midst of a civic disaster and their soccer team has refused to play some games in protest of the government. That just doesn't happen in the United States.

Podcasts weren't even a mainstream storytelling medium when "30 for 30" films first launched in 2009, but the genre has just had a watershed year. Why do you think they have become so popular?
You can't discount the impact of availability. We all have phones in our pockets, those phones have apps, we are always on the go and it is a handsfree medium that lets you listen from anywhere -- those things matter. I also think that companies like ESPN realize that terrestrial radio is going away so they've placed bets and devoted resources into podcasting.

What do you predict for the future?
There's not been a huge audio documentary heritage in the U.S. outside of a few little pockets but it's starting to change. It feels like podcasting is coming of age, and all of the stuff that's going to blow us away is still around the corner. In the last six months, I've seen a lot more quality podcast programming out there. There is an audience for true crime, but it is low hanging fruit and definitely the genre that is most cookie cutter. It's the same with TV, look at the lineup on any primetime network after 8 p.m. -- it's mostly shocking true crimes. On the sports side, I feel like we ["30 for 30"] are the only ones trying to do what we're doing. We are starting to see more top talent in podcasting -- right now the Dan Gordons ("Hillsborough," "George Best: All by Himself") of the world are making documentary films. But the next Dan Gordon or Alex Gibney might make podcasts.

'OJ: Made In America,' and the 30 Other Game-Changing '30 for 30' Films (Photos)

The five-part "O.J.: Made In America" marks a watershed moment for "30 for 30," the ESPN documentary series that has proven to be one of the best concepts the network has ever come up with. Co-created by Connor Schell and Bill Simmons in 2009 to chronicle 30 stories from the "ESPN era" beginning with the network's founding in 1979, the series has elevated filmmakers, creating unforgettable works that have received awards, critical acclaim and festival selections many times over.

Also Read: ESPN’s ‘OJ: Made in America’ Documentary: 7 Things You Need to Know
ESPN
30. "Trojan War"
Pete Carroll turned the USC Trojans into the first college football powerhouse of the 21st century before leaving for the Seattle Seahawks amidst NCAA sanctions. USC alum Aaron Rahsaan Thomas looks at the beginning of the Trojans' steady decline: The Team's loss in the 2006 national championship game against Texas.
ESPN
29. "The Price of Gold"
The Tonya Harding/Nancy Kerrigan scandal was one of the most disgraceful in women's sports. It was also insanely profitable for figure skating. Director Nanette Burstein takes a look at the incident 20 years later and what it meant for both the sport and Harding's turbulent life.
ESPN
28. "Youngstown Boys"
The rise and fall of college dynasties and the corrupt side of school sports has been a regular topic on "30 For 30." The film takes a look at the scandals that surrounded Ohio State football coach Jim Tressel and fallen star Maurice Clarrett, the latter of whom ended up in prison.
ESPN
27. "The 16th Man"
This documentary about the 1995 Rugby World Cup, which was hosted by South Africa shortly after the end of Apartheid, featured Morgan Freeman -- who played Nelson Mandela in the biopic, "Invictus," -- is the narrator.
ESPN
26. "The Birth of Big Air"
What if I told you the guys who made "Jackass" contributed to this series? After earning fame by filming guys doing stupid things, Jeff Tremaine directed this documentary about the life of Mat Hoffman, the greatest BMX rider of all time. Hoffman's interviews reveal the drive that not only defines his life, but the core philosophy of action sports as well.
ESPN
25. "Winning Time"
This film is one of the lighter pieces in the "30 For 30" lineup, but also one of the best executed. It focuses on the playoff duels between the Pacers and Knicks in the mid-90s, a series that made Reggie Miller one of the top NBA players not named Michael Jordan, especially when taunting Knicks fanatic, Spike Lee.

Also Read: Spike Lee Honors Prince With Purple People Party in Brooklyn
ESPN
24. Straight Outta L.A.
In the 80s, Al Davis took his ball and left Oakland, bringing his Raiders to Los Angeles. In the 13 seasons they played there, the Silver and Black captivated their temporary home, as well as this documentary's director, Ice Cube. "Straight Outta L.A." shows how L.A. and the Raiders were a perfect fit for each other, and how they inspired the imagery and philosophy of N.W.A.

Also Read: ‘Barbershop: The Next Cut’ Review: Ice Cube Comedy Layers Workplace Sitcom with Social Advocacy
ESPN
23. "Playing for the Mob"
Jim Sweeney was a Rhodes Scholar and a Naismith Award-winning superstar at Boston College. So why did he take money as part of a points-shaving scheme? "Playing For The Mob," directed Joe Lavine and Cayman Grant, is another great corrupt college sports tale.

Also Read: ESPN’s ’30 for 30’ Marks 5th Anniversary with Ray Liotta Voicing College Basketball Mob Documentary (Video)
ESPN
22. "Jordan Rides The Bus"
At the peak of his athletic and cultural dominance, Michael Jordan stunned everyone by leaving basketball to give minor league baseball a try. "Bull Durham" director Ron Shelton, himself a former minor league player, goes inside the motives that led one sport's greatest ever to enter a sport where he was outmatched by so many.
ESPN
21. "Bad Boys"
The '89-90 Detroit Pistons are one of the forgotten great teams in NBA history, which is weird because in their time they were hated. "Bad Boys" looks at Isiah Thomas, Bill Laimbeer, and the rest of the players that made up one of the grittiest, most physical teams in basketball history.
ESPN
20. "Of Miracles And Men"
What's it like to be on the losing end of a miracle? "Of Miracles and Men" looks at the Soviets who lost the "Miracle on Ice" and goes beyond that upset to show what it was like to be a hockey player blocked from playing in the NHL by the Iron Curtain.
ESPN
19. "Fernando Nation"
In 1959, the Latino residents of L.A.'s Chavez Ravine were forcibly evicted so their homes could make way for the construction of Dodger Stadium. Two decades later, a chubby 19-year-old from Sonora, Mexico, named Fernando Valenzuela became the biggest star not just on the Dodgers, but all of baseball.

Also Read: Vin Scully Graces Sports Illustrated Cover, Says He’s ‘Uncomfortable’ With Tributes
ESPN
18. "Four Days In October"
The 2004 American League Championship Series was the kind of sports moment "30 for 30" was made for. The Yankees were three outs away from once again killing the dreams of their rivals and sports' most famous losers, the Red Sox. Instead, the Red Sox rallied from a 3-0 series deficit, and "Four Days In October" shows how the infamous Curse of the Bambino was broken in the most unlikely of circumstances.

ESPN
17. "Slaying the Badger"
The 1986 Tour de France is widely considered to be the greatest story in cycling history. American Greg LeMond had helped his teammate Bernard Hinault win the previous year, and Hinault had pledged to return the favor. What unfolded that year en route to LeMond becoming the first American to win the Tour showed how cycling is a constant struggle between rivalry and friendship; individual and team.
ESPN
16. "Requiem For The Big East"
"O.J. Simpson: Made In America" isn't the first documentary Ezra Edelman has made for ESPN. "Requiem for the Big East" was a dive into one of his favorite things in sports: Big East college basketball. He ties in the conference's rise with that of ESPN and shows how the two forces combined to change college basketball into the form we know today.
ESPN
15. "The Announcement"
Magic Johnson has become such an esteemed elder statesman in basketball and in Los Angeles that it's easy to forget the trials he faced when he revealed he had HIV. "The Announcement" restores weight to his famous confession and explores what Magic faced shortly after his sudden retirement.

Also Read: Magic Johnson Pledges Support to Charlie Sheen in HIV Battle: ‘I Hope He Joins Me in Educating the World’
ESPN
14. "Kings Ransom"
August 9, 1988, was a red letter day for hockey and a day that has lived in infamy for Canada. Wayne Gretzky, national hero, was being traded from the Edmonton Oilers to the Los Angeles Kings. "Kings Ransom" explores the intense backlash the move received north of the border and the transformative impact it had on the NHL, as Gretzky helped expand the sport's appeal into new territory as he led the Kings to their first Stanley Cup Final appearance.
ESPN
13. "I Hate Christian Laettner"
This is one of the funniest "30 for 30" to date. Christian Laettner was one of the most dominant college hoops players of his time, and like the university he played for, everyone loved to hate him. Rory Karpf talks with Laettner in a film that explores how an athlete can inspire such passionate hatred for reasons both valid and ludicrous.

Also Read: Duke Basketball Legend Christian Laettner on Being So Hated That ESPN Made a ’30 for 30’ Film About It
ESPN
12. "You Don't Know Bo"
Bo Jackson never won a championship, but he did something even better: he became a mythical figure. With the help of some creative animated pieces, Michael Bonfiglio delves through fact and fiction to explore the incredible legend Bo built around himself -- and what he left behind.
ESPN
11. "Pony Excess"
Thaddeus Matula was the son of an SMU professor and a rabid fan of the school's football team, the Mustangs. He was eight when the Mustangs faced the unthinkable: the NCAA was shutting down their program for two years, bringing an end to their dominance. "Pony Excess" is Matula's retelling of that scandal, digging into the football team's dealings with oil tycoons and corrupt politicians in a city and decade that was consumed by greed.
ESPN
10. "Broke"
A sobering documentary that proves the adage "mo' money, mo' problems" is more true than you might believe. Billy Corben interviews retired athletes who lost all their wealth from their pro career through poor investments, bad friends, and of course, the temptation of materialism.
ESPN
9. "Fantastic Lies"
Marina Zenovich, director of "Roman Polanski: Wanted and Desired," created this scathing piece on the 2006 Duke Lacrosse case, exposing how the public's outrage at injustice can sometimes become overzealous and catch innocent people in the crossfire.
ESPN
8. "Muhammad and Larry"
In 1980, Muhammad Ali wanted one more title match against Larry Holmes. The fight proved what everyone but Ali already knew: The Greatest was past his prime. Using archival footage of the fight he shot himself, director Albert Maysles shows the humanity of both fighters, including the dark side of Ali that fueled his competitiveness, and the reluctance of Holmes to put down his friend and idol for good.
ESPN
7. "Catching Hell"
Every Cubs fan wonders what might have happened if Steve Bartman had let Moises Alou catch that foul ball in 2003. Director Alex Gibney lifts the curtain on what happened to Bartman after that infamous catch and questions why sports fans so often dwell on singular moments of bad luck.

Also Read: HBO to Develop Alex Gibney’s Death Row Drama Starring Laura Dern
ESPN
6. "The Best That Never Was"
Marcus Dupree was the greatest high school football recruit of his generation and the pride of his hometown of Philadelphia. He then went to Oklahoma and quickly fizzled out. Director Jonathan Hock tracked down Dupree to find out what went wrong and how Dupree was able to come to peace with the direction his life ended up taking.
ESPN
5. "Four Falls of Buffalo"
It hurts to watch your team lose a title. To have that happen four straight years is almost unimaginable. Yet that's what Buffalo Bills fans experienced as their team lost four consecutive Super Bowls. But instead of just lamenting their defeats, "Four Falls of Buffalo" becomes a love letter to the city the Bills call home, as well as a call to really consider just what the Bills managed to achieve.
ESPN
4. "The U"
In the 80s, a pair of cultural phenomena changed Miami forever: "Miami Vice" and The U. This documentary follows the latter, showing how the Canes' dominance brought South Florida's most well-known university unprecedented fame and party school cred before it hit a brutal decline.
ESPN
3. "June 17, 1994"
Everyone remembers where they were when O.J. Simpson drove that white Bronco, but do you remember what else happened that day? From Stanley Cup parades and World Cup matches to the MLB lockout, director Brett Morgen explores a day in sports history unlike any other in one of the first prominent "30 For 30" installments.

Also Read: OJ Fact Check: Two White Broncos?
ESPN
2. "Hillsborough"
"Hillsborough" covers the human crush at an FA Cup match between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest in 1989 that killed 96 people. Police blamed fans for the incident, but a new inquest exonerated them and delivered a verdict of unlawful killing earlier this year.
ESPN
1. "The Two Escobars"
This is not only the greatest "30 for 30;" it is also one of the greatest documentaries in recent memory. Andres Escobar was a hero to the people of Colombia, yet the national team he played for was bankrolled with by the infamous drug kingpin Pablo Escobar. "The Two Escobars" is one of the finest examples of how sports can become more than a game. Sometimes, it can all too literally become a matter of life and death.
ESPN

1 of 31

From "The U" to "The Two Escobars," we count down the 30 greatest documentaries that ESPN's critically-acclaimed series has gifted us

The five-part "O.J.: Made In America" marks a watershed moment for "30 for 30," the ESPN documentary series that has proven to be one of the best concepts the network has ever come up with. Co-created by Connor Schell and Bill Simmons in 2009 to chronicle 30 stories from the "ESPN era" beginning with the network's founding in 1979, the series has elevated filmmakers, creating unforgettable works that have received awards, critical acclaim and festival selections many times over.

Also Read: ESPN’s ‘OJ: Made in America’ Documentary: 7 Things You Need to Know

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'OJ: Made In America,' and the 30 Other Game-Changing '30 for 30' Films (Photos)

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