It’s a turbulent time in the entertainment business. TheGrill conference this year reflected that turbulence in an intense day of conversation and debate — in the anxiety expressed by independent producers and digital entrepreneurs and from the sense of uncertainty from corporate leaders on the main stage.

As a result, I learned a lot of things. And as expected, Ryan Kavanaugh mixed it up.

Let’s start there. Kavanaugh is a polarizing figure in Hollywood, to be sure. Some admire him for having built an independent studio in a tough economic climate and for his ability to constantly raise new rounds of capital. Others accuse him of spinning wild tales and taking his past investors for a ride. I suspect that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Kavanaugh seems to chronically invite controversy, but he also undeniably brings a brash optimism, new ideas, as well as fresh capital to the table in an industry that needs all those things.

Also Read: Ryan Kavanaugh Wants to Create a Stock Exchange for Movies -- Let Him Explain

So he laid out his latest new idea — launching an entertainment stock exchange to allow individuals to buy shares in individual movies. This is an idea that foundered a decade ago when federal regulations got in the way, but in the age of Netflix, it seems even more significant if it works.

Raising production money from direct investment by movie fans builds a marketing avenue with a built-in audience, a guaranteed community of free incentived promoters of a given film and a direct database of information about movie consumption.

That latter point is vastly powerful, if it succeeds, and it would give traditional movie studios an ability to market directly to their consumers (movie fans) in a way that has been lacking.

I heard a few other things that made my ears prick up. Lionsgate vice chairman Michael Burns was asked by moderator (and investment banker) Jason Rapp about Atom Tickets, the online ticketing service of which his company is a part-owner. Burns said that Lionsgate is unlikely to buy it, and that a larger player — Disney, perhaps? — is the more logical acquirer. Stay tuned on that.

He also noted that Lionsgate agrees with what this column has frequently stated — that a two-tiered Hollywood now reigns. “The movie business today is Disney… and everybody else,” he said, though personally I would argue that Netflix is in that same mega-category.

Kendra Kabasele

I found it fascinating that Hello Sunshine CEO Sarah Harden, one of the most closely-watched executives in town, said that her company (founded by Reese Witherspoon) is not focused on monetization. They are focused on building a brand through movie production, books and podcasts. The monetization, she says, will come later.

Also Read: The Scene at TheGrill 2019: Pamela Adlon, Tony Hale, and More at TheWrap's Media Leadership Conference (Photos)

In the “Tearing Down Bias” roundtable, producer Tommy Oliver and A+E executive Brie Miranda Bryant led a very personal discussion about how to achieve greater inclusivity in the industry. The conversation took a surprising turn when one location manager, who was white, noted that the roundtable had somehow segregated itself by color. And she was right. So Oliver called on everyone to get out of their comfort zones and sit next to a stranger. And everyone got up and moved.

It was the kind of real interaction that characterized this year’s Grill, with people sharing at an existential level, such as Propagate co-CEO Howard Owens calling out to other producers to support one another, and noting, “It’s never been harder” to succeed as a producer.

Several producers pointed out that medium-sized movies — what Creative Future’s Ruth Vitale called “George Clooney movies,” like “Michael Clayton” and “Good Night and Good Luck” — have basically disappeared from the marketplace.

Also Read: How to Be a 'Real' Producer: Know Your Audience and 'Fight for Your Life'

“You’ve gotta have at least one quadrant that you can hit really hard,” said Ashok Amritraj, CEO of Hyde Park Entertainment. “You need to tick every box today to get your movie made.”

And among the media entrepreneurs at the other packed roundtable, it was clear that innovation has emerged from the search for data around creating content.

“For us, it’s really about getting people to know it’s not about creativity or data, it’s creativity and data,” said Cinelytic co-founder Tobias Queisser.

It’s that kind of time.

The Scene at TheGrill 2019: Pamela Adlon, Tony Hale, and More at TheWrap's Media Leadership Conference (Photos)

Film producer Ryan Kavanaugh poses on TheGrill 2019 red carpet
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Pamela Adlon and Tony Hale at the Spotlight on Comedy panel moderated by TheWrap's Tim Molloy
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Actor Anthony Carrigan, Dave Rubin and Brie Miranda Bryant at the Innovators panel
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TheWrap's Sharon Waxman poses with Pamela Adlon and Tony Hale
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Guests chat at a breakfast hosted by OpusBank
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TheGrill 2019 networking breakfast presented by OpusBank
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Ryan Kavanaugh, CEO and founder of Proxima, and TheWrap's Sharon Waxman have a spotlight conversation to kick off TheGrill 2019.
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Ryan Kavanaugh
Lionsgate vice chairman Michael Burns and Hello Sunshine CEO Sarah Harden speak at M&A: Exits, Outcomes and Successes
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Pamela Adlon poses for the camera
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Jason Rapp moderates M&A: Exits, Outcomes and Successes panel discussion with Lionsgate's Michael Burns and Hello Sunshine's Sarah Harden
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Founder and co-CEO of Propagate Content, Howard Owens, poses on TheGrill 2019 red carpet
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Onlookers at the M&A: Exits, Outcomes and Successes panel with Michael Burns and Sarah Harden, moderated by Jason Rapp
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M&A: Exits, Outcomes and Successes panel
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(L-R) Benji Lanpher, Crofton Diack, David Reichert, Guillermo Navarro, Jimmy Chin, Shannon Dill and TheWrap's Steve Pond at Daring Nature: Documenting Extremes presented by National Geographic
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"Free Solo" director Jimmy Chin speaks at Daring Nature: Documenting Extremes presented by National Geographic
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The crowd listening to the Nat Geo panel
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Shannon Dill at Nat Geo's panel
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Guillermo Navarro at the Daring Nature: Documenting Extremes presented by NatGeo panel
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Benji Lanpher and Crofton Diack of "Life Below Zero" speak at Daring Nature: Documenting Extremes presented by National Geographic
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Onlookers at Daring Nature: Documenting Extremes presented by National Geographic
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A participant makes a point at the Producer's Roundtable
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Howard Owens chats with guests at the Producers Roundtable presented by Delta Airlines
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Producers' Rountable at TheGrill 2019
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"Black Love" executive producer Tommy Oliver and "Surviving R. Kelly" co-producer Brie Miranda Bryant at the Diversity Strong: Tearing Down Bias, Building Inclusivity Roundtable
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Lunch is just on the other side of this tunnel of light!
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A choice of ice cold lemonade or tea with lunch at the London West Hollywood hotel
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Guests chatting under an umbrella at TheGrill 2019
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TheWrap's Claude Memmi at TheGrill 2019
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Guests gather to chat at TheGrill 2019
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TheWrap magazines on a table at TheGrill 2019
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Devin Johnson (far left) president of UNINTERRUPTED, and other participants listen to the Diversity Strong: Tearing Down Bias, Building Inclusivity Roundtable
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Sharon Waxman chats with "Black Love" creator and executive producer Tommy Oliver
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Pamela Adlon and Tony Hale lead the Spotlight on Comedy
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(L-R) Raina Kumra, Jeff Berman and Amy Emmerich at the Silicon Beach Roundtable
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Brie Miranda Bryant, senior vice president of Unscripted Development and Programming at Lifetime and co-producer of "Surviving R. Kelly," networking with guests
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Sharon Waxman chats with "Sorry to Bother You" producer Nina Yang Bongiovi
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(L-R) Adam Lewinson, Bruce Perlmutter, Shelley Zimmerman and TheWrap's Sean Burch at the Streaming Steps Up panel presented by Tubi
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Adam Lewinson, chief content officer of Tubi, makes a point
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Guests at TheGrill 2019
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Attendees at lunch at TheGrill 2019
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Guests at TheGrill 2019
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Anthony Carrigan, Dave Rubin and Brie Miranda Bryant at the Innovators panel moderated by TheWrap's Sharon Waxman
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Flowers on a table at TheGrill 2019
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Dave Rubin mingles after the Innovators panel
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Conversations being had at the diversity roundtable
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Anthony Carrigan and Dave Rubin pose together after the Innovator's panel
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Bruce Perlmutter makes a point during the Streaming Steps Up panel presented by Tubi
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Onlookers at the Spotlight on Comedy panel with Pamela Adlon and Tony Hale, moderated by TheWrap's Tim Molloy
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Onlookers at the Silicon Beach panel
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Actress Sydney Park (center) tells a story during the diversity roundtable
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Howard Owens speaking at TheGrill 2019
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An onlooker listening intently to the Innovator's Panel
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Guests mingle at the close of TheGrill 2019
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TheWrap CEO Sharon Waxman addresses guests at the opening dinner
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David Reichert, director of photography on Nat Geo's "Hostile Planet"
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TheWrap's CEO Sharon Waxman speaks at TheGrill 2019 opening dinner
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Guests sitting at the table for TheGrill 2019 opening dinner
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Closing cocktail party at TheGrill 2019
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